Welcome everybody to the E X P series here at UN 10 10 dot com For all new listeners in

our E X P series we share leadership and career experiences from successful leaders around the world So E X

P stands for experience My name is Udon Newman I'm the founder and chief experience officer at UN 10

I N banking to a founder in Digital Health I welcome a good friend of mine Alexandra Reiff Alexander was

the cio and global head of tech technology for years in different banks in the United Arab Emirates

and is now the founder of Digital Health So what makes Alex very unique is his energy and

passion to transform business models and organizations He did that in Europe in Asia and in the Middle East And

I'm looking forward to hear from him how he did that What are his challenges and what were opportunities around

his career in these different kind of regions of the world So welcome Alex and thank

you for being my guest It's great to have you on the E X P series And I'm

sure our listeners will also get a lot of positive feedback out of your experience Thank you And let's get

in it Hi Thanks for inviting me to be part of your podcast and happy to share some insights experience

knowledge uh from my past and from my presence and looking forward to a few

challenging questions from you Let's get into the question Alex Um Your career is a trip

from Stuttgart to Beijing to Abu Dhabi and to Dubai And these are only uh some some

top names of cities they were for sure more around that So a lot of people me included

have international careers But I must say yours is a special selection of countries and challenges And I remember some

of your career steps when we work closely together But please for our listeners share your bio and

more important where your decision points on your career are and what are the different challenging milestones on

your career path You mentioned a few of my stations as you said where I have been and it's you've

mainly focused out around the locations I'll try and extend that a bit And before I go into

my bio the locations were only one part Usually the other part was always the

location the culture the business culture in that location and then the company the company culture of

the company that I was working for in these locations And I think that's uh was very often

for me decision points Um where I where I took the decision to move somewhere

Now very often I got offered something uh sometimes I declined sometimes I accepted But before going

also into the bayou you said what are your drivers and decision points For me I think the main

thing that always drives me and that's probably not the same for everybody But for me I

put that even on my linkedin profile as a quote from Albert Einstein which says I'm neither very

clever nor especially gifted I'm only very very curious and a similar thing is for me right I I was

never good at school I was just average everywhere Um I'm not very gifted in anything The only

thing I have is a drive and a curiosity I always want to know more things want to learn different

things want to expand my knowledge my experience And then usually when a decision point came or when

something came um it was either an offer that came from somewhere and then I had to decide

you know in the current position or in the current assignment Am I still progressing Am I still satisfying my

curiosity or am I not Or do I agree with the direction that was basically brought to

me Uh Can I identify myself with that or not And then usually you start to rethink and uh

you you start to rethink whether you know is it still the progress I want to make is

it the direction I want to go to And that's kind of always the decision points

and the drivers and that has never changed over the last many years going back into um bio or where

does all of that come from or how did I end up doing that I mean originally I

studied electrical engineering in Germany Graduated as a master's in what was at that time what

do you call digital at that time which was kind of the technical part of computer science And that went

down to really you know switching switching flip flops and um basically programming F GPA

S and all that stuff really the the hardcore bit of computer science and all of that was in

the last millennium So at the very early stages of this whole thing now after graduating and after basically

being in the job um being uh taken over by the company for whom I did my final thesis

I realized that you know developing hardware and writing low level software was interesting but was not going to cut

it for me for the whole life So I went back to university and did kind

of the German equivalent of an M B A which we call engineer I did half of that in

Germany And as I thought you know there must be something else I did half of that in Singapore

which was kind of my first real international stint And that was quite interesting to be exposed to

a different culture to be exposed to also a different educational environment which was not what I

had experienced so far studying all my time up to a first degree in Germany So that kind of

got me very interested to see Oops there's more out there and there's much more to learn there's much

more to experience and it's not only the content of your job your education there's a lot around this which

is cultural which is business practices which is different behaviors And I sometimes as I say I somehow as I

say I I think I leaked blood at that point Then once that was finished I basically applied and I

signed up with uh at that point uh Shell trading and shipping or shell the oil company

But in their trading arm which was um and in their actually in their I T which was a

good combination of my electronics I T skills and uh the M B A slash business

skills I had acquired at least theoretically during my university time So I ended up in London at a

company called Shell Trading They were doing the crude and products trading and I was in the I

T there Very interesting for me um first as an I T consultant Then when

this whole thing again remember we talk about the last millennium when this whole thing with the web

started I was very keen to get into that to understand that And we developed in-house development In-house developed

a few productivity applications stuff you you take for granted today stuff you get off the shelf today with office

for them and then also did some infrastructure work for them on the network level

understanding how IP networks work and uh basically rolling out messaging projects Um Again very interesting

Lots of facets Uh The thing then was I was in their trainee program But

you know what um there was no real progress anymore and there was no real projection for me

anymore What comes next and where to go next So something happened some old friend called me

and said look there's this startup here in Germany they're looking for somebody to basically help drive

the development So I left a very safe job and I left a prescribed career and I jumped into

that start up and was doing e-commerce software again very interesting set up there The whole thing the

software the whole dream was already sold to a few customers but nothing was really

built or not a lot Let me say it this way and uh somebody had to get

the whole things together that was a very engaged team Um And um a very also knowledgeable and very skilled

team I just needed to be pulling together a bit of architecture which I hadn't come across

before that but a bit of systems architecture uh how to do these things properly

how to do them in a scalable way So we build software and that was great So I was there

for three years It was running quite well It was a startup I put some money in Unfortunately you know

there was this external event which they called the dot com bubble burst which hit us unfortunately before the

next f funding round And uh we were not yet cash flow positive We had a good

cash flow but we were not yet cash flow positive And that's when you get in trouble with

the startup Usually uh you're not yet cash flow positive there's not enough money anymore and

you need to then do something So we had to restructure the company It was a very tough way We

had to downsize things were not going necessarily the trajectory I thought they should be going We built a great

software We had quite a few customers We were running the biggest e-commerce site in Europe on Microsoft basis

But still at the end there came a decision point when um I got an

offer from a company called Daimler slash Mercedes from uh which is when I met UDO basically And

that sounded actually interesting And um you know so I had to rethink do I want to

keep spending my time in the startup environment Um or do I want to move back into

Big Cop and uh and operate there And at that point I felt I can learn more

by moving back into big corporation Um Plus in all fairness I had two little kids uh

you know you need to bring the money home in order to have the food on the

table So I switched I switched to Daimler at that point and was then under UDO responsible for the cluster

central Europe as a as a cluster C A O uh with quite a few with quite

a few group companies there running largely vehicle finance on the retail side and also vehicle

finance a bit on the corporate side for the deal of financing And interesting enough many of

them had all the same problems They were engaged in some transformation programs they were engaged in

some uh system migrations and they were largely how should I say tackled only technically but not organizationally Uh

They were very often you know conceptualized purely technically and neglected the whole organizational piece and how to

get how to get such a thing implemented or changed Uh Because it's the technical part is

just one part it's an important part and it needs to be done well but it's not

the only part So cut the long story short I ended up going around the Europe uh

trying to basically bring such projects back on track or to run them completely And

somehow in some cases I was successful in some cases you couldn't fix them And um that was

all very interesting And I kept learning I kept learning system approaches I kept learning different organizations I kept

learning different financial products which I had not come across before And as it is my it as it is

my kind of personal endeavor I want to know not only how do things work

technically but also how do they work Uh conceptually So I wanted to learn how does a leasing work How

does a loan work How does that get calculated How does that get accounted for How

does that get amortized How and so on and how does that get serviced Uh how do you

interact with the customer and within this project you know I had lots of um

lots of um opportunities to ask people who know how this works So that went on for a

while then uh somebody realized uh that you could send me into some burning platforms And the next

burning platform was Beijing at that point in uh in China where Daimler Le Mercedes

were just building a new financial services company at that point which I think it's become

a bank in the meantime and they needed somebody to basically make sure this thing goes live properly and then

uh it is operational and can be built out uh with further products further systems and

so on So we packed the container and went to Beijing with the whole family That was interesting

completely different culture completely new environment Sure it challenging Yes But you know what I think it was

it was great It was a great experience So that went on for about two years

Um I was just about to renew my contract for another year because there was

more things to come on that side that the company was growing like mad and um additional systems for additional

products needed to be implemented Uh I enjoyed that very much and then I got another call saying

look um you just have to go over the water into Japan Um There's a few other there's a

few issues with a few of the financial service companies there because there is three and then there is the

vehicles import side and the part logistics side So quite a few things need to be done there

Can you please go So I looked at it like Japan it was never in Japan Don't know

that culture really heard lots of things But uh anyway so again packed the container moved

the family to Japan was there for three years Um doing replacement projects doing refurbishment projects

and doing I think still the only demerger of my career uh where uh Daimler and Chrysler or

Mercedes and Chrysler basically Dem Meg very interesting exercise Um If you ever get to do one of

those again for three years doing system replacements and and architecture overhauls landscape overhauls there First time I did virtualization

there very interesting And with that one got exposed to let me call it what we call cloud today

at least on the technology side So that was quite interesting Uh Then I got called back into

Germany to basically take care of a few things One was the home build um course system uh that

they were running out of Milton Keynes Plus there was a project going on in Detroit Plus

moving the financial services headquarter from Berlin to Stuttgart and so on and so forth And that was

then for me a bit how should I say Awkward I didn't know really you know where was

this going And and um my boss had changed didn't like that guy So you

know then all of a sudden I had hunted ok And and said look there is

this uh actually it was two things happening at the same time I had literally two job offers

at the same time which is very rare One was uh to go to London and the

other one was to go to this weird place called Abu Dhabi uh where there

was a bank who needed somebody to you know do what I used to do Overhaul the whole thing

I then thought you know London I was already uh my son was born there So

why not try something new Let's go to Abu Dhabi So we went to Abu Dhabi That was for me

probably one of the bigger challenges because I was all of a sudden not only responsible for um some

part of the banking business but they literally they were a universal bank and they literally

had everything that you can think of in banking from retail conventional Islamic over sme

to corporate banking to um to brokerage to wealth management to private banking you name it

they had it And um the whole thing was pretty pretty pretty um underserved On the I T

side I should say uh I was really surprised what you can on which footprint

you can run a bank So everything needed to be done That was down from

the data centers from the networks from the server landscape up to the application landscape to the

whole application architecture replacing core systems replacing payment systems building out the channels which were not there before and

then basically ramping them up and putting them onto a footprint so you can run The whole thing

was quite interesting And um that went actually it took me about six years or

so to refurbish that whole shop And just at the moment when it would have become

boring there was another challenge which was you know three banks merging So I went into a three

bank merger and uh got the task to kind of get that done on the I T side

which again was a very interesting one never done a three way never done such a merger

But um then just right in the middle of that everything was designed set up was running was

running Well actually at that point there was a personal event in my life which was

my daughter had an offer to basically join the United World College And um well that would

have meant for her a change in the location for her last two years in

the diploma program and she was prepared to go to boarding But at the same time I had a few

health issues and I had done this for quite a while And so I thought maybe time for a

change maybe time to retire Now I I can probably while I talk about this

I can hear UDO laughing in the background Alex and retiring And that was really

my goal I had to fix a few health issues which I did And together with my daughter and

my wife we then went to to Thailand and you know try to recover health wise Plus um

enable my daughter to do her to do her to finish her school there And um I really wanted

to opt out but then obviously as it was still within that merger um somebody

needed to you know finish that So my boss came to me and said you need

to find me a solution So basically for the best part of the year I was shuttling

back and forth between Thailand and Abu Dhabi In order to pull this merger over the line

which we then successfully did we merged the systems and everything worked all well And uh

I left then uh like two days or three days after the final merger and

after the final go live of the systems I boarded the plane flew back to Thailand I think I landed

one day the next day the airport was locked for over a year due to COVID So I was

I was stranded in Thailand which was actually quite nice You know I fixed my health issues and then things

started to happen I really wanted to retire but uh didn't pan out like this as it

was COVID and as everybody was kind of and now all of a sudden accepting remote

working um I got quite a few people who called me who were aware that this guy Alex

has nothing to do Um So I got lots of things Can you have a

look at this one Can you please check out that one Can you whatever you

know lots of and or I even went into some consulting engagements because nobody wanted you on

site anyway at that point in time So I did a lot of stuff remote

and that's how all of this started I got into some um some startups who

were asking for advice So I and some of them were so interesting that I decided I

want to even put some money into them So I started what you would call angel investment

for angel investing for no better word So I started to put money into it put my

knowledge into it try to coach a few of these founders And that became really

interesting and um that went on until kind of COVID was over until my daughter

graduated And then we decided that probably Thailand is a bit too calm So we came back to

the UAE um still had an apartment in Dubai moved into that one And then again things

started to happen I was very busy with my um startups on the fintech and red side and on

the crypto asset side and all of a sudden another bank here local bank came and said look we're looking

for somebody who can you know inflict the change of also to say fix up things

Um So I started with them and uh that was also very interesting Again another

universal bank lots of projects in trouble which needed to be on track Um a landscape which needs overhaul

a lot of work So that was going on while that happened I met um I met an

old friend of mine actually he was the first guy I had ever hired and we compared notes and he

had some ideas and uh how does that uh came a startup So we we we threw

our ideas together we threw our concepts together And at the end uh we started a startup

we put quite a lot of money in and uh now I'm running a startup I'm still in the bank

as a consultant Uh basically to help them finish off all the things that I tried

to on track and that I started with them that I needed to finalize But but couldn't because

I can't I can't do two full time jobs At least not in how I'm

engaging usually So I'm still working with them as a consultant And uh on the other

side um I have a start up with a bunch of uh friends where we're trying to

do something completely different And again that's the story for now let's see where we're going

from here Alex Uh Very interesting uh listening to your story and yeah let let's move into another topic

Um Please share with us some career highlights There are highlights in every career whether promotion or changes

in a professional environment I know you stepped out of your comfort zone several times and

started in completing new environments where you need to learn not only new business rule rules

but also new cultures So please describe a moment or a decision in your career

that you consider a major success or highlight What was it And uh why did you select that and share

that with us Now what was the um the special moment in that decision OK Before I come to

moment of decision which was a major success or which I would deem a major success I have

to go back a bit to how you framed the whole question When you said you

know stepping out of your comfort zone and so on and so forth Actually that concept doesn't exist for

me Uh there is no comfort zone there's a boring zone and there is an exciting

zone The comfort zone or the boring zone is for me always when things get repetitive and it's

always the same when I'm doing things again and again that I've done before there's no

excitement in there because I'm not learning anything anymore I'm a change manager and as a

change manager you're always looking for change and not for continuing the same thing in a slightly different fashion in

order to achieve another 1% efficiency a change manager you know lives and breathes um change like

change Meaning you take something from a stable state via an unstable state to the next stable state Now um

That's why you know whenever something becomes you know repetitive for me or comfortable it's

time to find something new So it's exciting again And that goes together with what I said

earlier that I'm always trying to learn I'm always excited about new things and I I always

I'm always curious to find other things and coming back then to your question like when

is something successful or what is a major success for me I don't want to go into

individual ones but it was largely around um some turnarounds and which was often around either um system implementation ations

or about whole transformations You know when they go live in a bank that's usually a pretty tricky

piece because the bank never stops And that means that whenever you're operating you know you can't take the

things down you have to change the engine while the race is running And that is

usually pretty complex And usually you know a few things could potentially go wrong because it's complex and not everybody

will know everything at any point in time that can happen So I think such migrations let

me call it this way largely of core banking systems of payment systems They are what I would consider major

successes or highlights because not only because of the technical life because things going also because of all the excitement

around it Because usually if the thing is set up properly and if you're running it

properly you have a very good team spirit you have a team which is basically

doing the utmost to get things done and to do them successfully and in quality

and in time And that is definitely one thing when you then go through that

with the team and things go live successfully and they they they they cut over successfully Um because that's

a major achievement not only for one person but usually for the team the other thing is that

usually in such exercises or very often you have to take very unconventional decisions because normally

not everything goes to plan and when not everything goes to plan usually you have to very

quickly grapple Ok What's the situation Who can help me in the concept And then

you have to take the tough decisions usually very quickly You don't have time to mull over it

and and uh and do all your academical research over it you have to go by experience

by trust to people who know some fields that you don't know yourself and then basically um take the decisions

very quickly Um And I think I I draw a lot of energy out of such

events and that's why I also consider them as as major successes when things are then going live Actually

another one which people would usually not associate with success is when uh when things have gone majorly wrong

when disasters have struck and you need to bring things back into into a proper run

into a proper control Give an example I had one event where there was a

major actually power failure in a data center which is not supposed to happen And literally the whole bank

went down and we had to bring the thing back up in Um actually no

time because customers were waiting to get served on the channels And as you can assume this is

not a very easy exercise because you know when things are down some things are coming back up properly

some things don't come back up properly you have to take lots of decisions at all based on experience

and based on a few good people you have around you as as as coworkers and and

advisor in in such case and I draw a lot of energy out of such events

even though they are actually negative events But you know once you solve them once you

get things back up running um ideally in a very quick time this is for me also

um a major highlight um because it shows you that number one you have the ability to basically correlate

task and you have the team to basically help you um to get the right information at the

right time in the right depth in order to make the right decisions And again it's a

mixture of uh knowledge skills experience and people people people teams usually and team spirit um without a team

such things can never be pulled And uh again most of the most of such successes that I would

say are are successes I I I like and I would like to drill on is is all

such goal lives or such major fixes after a disaster struck somewhere I know it's a bit unconventional

I know this is not what everybody would think is an exciting moment But uh for me that's what

cuts it usually now uh I don't want to make it too easy for my guests

here Alex So here comes a tough question Which decision in your career was the toughest one Why

was it tough And for sure we want to know what was the outcome Well

which decision was the toughest one That's actually very easy to answer There's only one thing coming to

mind and that was the most difficult one and remains the most difficult one that I

had to ever decide Um That was actually during the times uh with our ecommerce startup

we were actually doing great We were building software It was going well we had uh customers we

rolled out Uh we had an excellent team and we were working our backsides off right

So we're working with the team like day and night over the weekends to pull things off

to build things to get them live and so on So on That was great Unfortunately there

was this uh external event called the dot com Hubble Bust Um And all of a

sudden you know funding dried up we were not yet cash flow positive So the company couldn't fund itself Um

because again we still were burning money um rather than earning enough because we're still in the build phase

Um So it was actually all going to plan The thing that was unplanned is

that we would not be able to basically match the next funding round and get enough money in

um to basically fund us up to profit full profitability So what happens in such case there's two choices

right And by the way that's the easy part of the equation The choice is not

to let the company go bust And uh basically all the people lose their job

and all the assets that were building or everything that you have done so far was for a toss or

do you reduce your workforce in order to cut cost So the decision was again the easy part of the

decision was does the whole thing go bust or do we cut half of the workforce

out That one was simple right Because you know rather than letting 100% go you let 50%

go the difficult part is whom will you let go You know and you don't have to take decisions on

a personal basis to say like who can stay who can go whom do we actually need as

a skeleton group to continue the company and to continue the build Um who has families whose hardest

hit by this decision It's not like making one or two nonperformance redundant It's like you

will have to release a few people who have become close friends who have worked with you day and night

through who are part of the team So you rip the team apart uh You rip

the spirit apart Um You release people who you don't want to release because they've done

a fabulous job with you and they've worked with you again day and night through to

pull things off Um yeah that is probably the hardest decision I had to take who are the ones who

have to leave who are the ones who can stay and and then basically communicating that

to these people And again it's not just like a person a number you know a a

staff number or something like it it's much easier actually in a big company when there's lots of severance packages

and blah blah blah in a small company in a startup that struggles for survival This is

a very very very personal story and it's a very sad personal story I hope for all the ones

and maybe one of of these guys and girls here's this Now I hope I've

handled it Um ok for everybody even though it was a very negative decision and it was a

cut for quite a lot of people I still hope that I handled it very humane and personal and

explain to everybody as to why and as to what and again what's the toughest decision

Don't wanna go through it again if I can avoid it as I'm helping or guiding uh questions here I

would say did you have a plan for your career Was it all by accident Uh Was

it the roles the chop itself or the challenges What motivated you for Always the next step How did

your family um support you in that Because without that it's not not possible And I know from my own

experience this is not always easy for for our wives and our kids moving around the world that starts a

new challenge and uh family follows So please feel free But uh in a short reflection um try to bring

some main decision and building blocks for our listeners so that they may be prepared when they are in front

of their decisions OK Um These are quite a few questions all merged into one Um Now

from the overarching topic like development and success and how that that will happen in my case

And what could I potentially recommend to somebody Um First I would try and dissect the whole thing a bit

into let me call it personal development and career development I think you can have

a great personal development without ever forwarding your career and vice versa You can uh have

an excellent career but not at all developed Personally I think the real story is um if if

you can combine the two um that is the best thing you can do from my perspective Now

on the personal development side I can only speak for myself and there's probably different paths for

me It was always that curiosity that um eagerness to learn find new things go

into a bit uncharted territory um that kept me going Um And again that's for me I'm not

sure if this is the same for everybody but it definitely helps if you're very curious and it definitely

helps if you uh if you can take the things that you're curious about into your work life and

into your um business career I'm always saying also to my kids you don't have

to be the fastest one You don't have to be the best one You don't have to

be the brightest one You just have to be there when the others have given up

and then pull the thing to the end now And that has always worked for me by the way or

you pick up things that others couldn't complete It's difficult But if you're curious and if you try and understand

why things fail if you understand why things how things should be done properly If

you plan them properly it will always work Uh don't fight losing battles though right If you're in

a losing battle better get out But if you see that there is a path to success in that

battle even though that battle is a hard one always go and fight it till the end

And usually if you're successful where's failed that gives you a much better trajectory Also

on your career side So that's more the personal side Uh on the career development

side for me was there a planned career path Yes and no On the one hand there was

always a path forward There was always some ideas what I wanted to do where

I wanted to go Um So it's always better to have a plan and then change it rather than

to have no plan and and walk through your career and through your life without a

plan Um But um you know things do change circumstances change and when they do change you need

to act or react or decide not to react So was it all by accident No probably

also not again I think um well let me go back to my first interview that I

had for my interview that I had in the Assessment Center for my first job at at Shell I was

actually interviewed by the Shell C A O in Germany And he asked me the usual question where do

you want to be in 10 years And I thought I want to have your seat in 10 years

Obviously I didn't tell him that I was too shy at that point in time I was

not bold enough Uh But I should have actually I should have told him that but I

felt this was not appropriate at the time Was that the plan Uh actually there was no clear plan

how to get there There was no clear plan how to get into a cio seat But you

know there was this ambition and I would say the most important thing more than having a

plan is what is your ambition and which steps can you take to get a bit closer

towards your ambition So it's again it's not about having a laid out career path for

your life for your next 10 2030 years I think that's not going to work today You

know technologies things environments are changing too fast for you to have a mapped out

career for your next like two digit years timeline Again you should have an ambition you

should know where you want to go You should be open when new things happen And even if

you have a clear path for the next five or 10 years if new opportunities arise

you should be prepared to rethink and at least reevaluate so that it's it's basically coming back the jobs

that we learned back in university at least for me or the job I'm doing

today didn't exist in that form and shape as I learned it in university Um

And I think that applies to all of us especially today things um develop faster than we think

And um there are going to be jobs in five or 10 years that nobody knows

about today So you better prepared for that You better prepared to keep learning on your personal

development side Uh On your professional side you better evaluate when there are opportunities coming in

Now opportunities are coming in two flavors from my perspective One is let me call it positive opportunities So somebody

comes to you and says look I have this job I have this thing you know would you

be interested Never say no In the first instance always look at it always talk to people and very

important Actually I learned that I'd be too late in my career because I thought I would stay in the

big companies where I was until you know either a very unexpected opportunity came or

until things went sour one way or another What I'm trying to say is never

get stuck in your in your a prescribed corporate career in the big Corp where you are always stay

open and always network network network network with people outside keep contact talk to people understand what they are

up to It's very important especially for people like me I'm an engineer by trade

I would say originally I was probably an introvert very difficult for me to go

out just meet people and and talk about what are they doing business wise How is

this working learning from them and so on But I can only emphasize it's important It's important

It's important Network invest the time the more time you invest the more interesting things will come to

you over time again This is not something I met I network with a guy or a person today And

tomorrow he comes with a job to me that's not going to happen But uh networking

is a long term game and you have to be in it for the long run you build

networks you liaise with people you understand what they're doing you try and read up on you

know how is this working what they're doing You try and learn from them As long as you're always keen

in learning networking always works And you know the more network you have the more opportunities will rise

for you That's one So that's the positive opportunities And again when an opportunity comes never say no in the

first place always have a look at it talk about the details understand what this opportunity is

about and then sit back and reflect and say is that the right thing for me to do at this

point in time then you have negative opportunities You know your job runs sour for

whatever reason your boss changes Uh your company is an M and A exercise and lays off

people Um things are happening you know and nobody is safe from that Now if these things happen I

think I can only give you one advice If you get kicked in the ass take the impulse forward

and run with it and do something with it Don't get stuck right If these things happen again somebody kicks

you in the backside use the use the moves the movement forward and run with it right And and

uh speed up get things done find something new network even more go into your

contacts find out you know what can be done Where are other opportunities don't take the

first best be very conscious but also negative changes in your work environment can have very positive effects

Sometimes you know we all get uh what we call the comfort zone I would say the boring zone

these things do happen and you know some of us get lifted out of that comfort or boring zone

by getting kicked and you don't want to be in that position But when it

happens you need to be prepared for it and you need to know how to

deal with it Don't stagnate Uh don't procrastinate always move I think that's what I would have to

say in the whole thing Um I can give you many examples but I think that would probably get

get us into too long a debate uh for this podcast Know you mentioned one other thing which is

uh family and moves international moves and all of that actually a very very very important thing and

there is no you know recipe one size fits all I think the first thing I've seen

people having international careers and having their families back in the old place and then moving around

a lot flying around a lot working remotely working in several places kind of living

on the plane very successfully and also with their families very successfully and it has worked out for them I've

seen more people who are basically uh where the whole family always moved And I think in that

respect what makes or breaks the one or the other model is basically your partner If your partner is

up for a move your partner is ready to basically um you know change the

environment take the challenge you know build the social networks new in a new place in a

different culture There's nothing better like it but it's not for every relationship So relationships can break over

that And you have to take a very conscious decision when these things get offered You know are you

and your and your partner ready for that You think you can live through it or not if not

and your relationship um is precious don't do it if you think it can work out And again

sometimes you need to plunge in and take the challenge and see that it works out Um I

would say always do it You know you were talking about kids I mean you have kids yourself I have

kids I think you know we are very often not moving because of our kids

I think kids take a very positive thing out of moving getting into new environments seeing different things having different

experiences going into different schools Um You know being in different places in different cultures My claim is kids

will ultimately always benefit from it from it Kids will never never never not benefit from it Um If

you basically orchestrate the whole thing Right That's why I would always say the most important thing is

is your family um stable is your spouse with you in the whole thing And

um I would say even moves can have and in most cases I have seen had very very positive

effects on families because the cohesion within the family gets much stronger at least in my experience and many

people whom I have seen I would even claim that people who have moved a lot or

who have lived their life on the move the divorce rate is probably much lower At least from my

observation I don't have a real stat for that So family for me is always um a very

important one and I think it's more positive for most families Again always as long as your

partner is uh is interested and is ready to do it again Could I give any advice for

your career Probably not I could only give you the advice do what you love and

what you're interested in That's a very important one because without that you will never have a career and um

always be open for new things network keep your eyes open evaluate new things Never say

no in the first place be very conscious And by the way there's no wrong decisions when it

comes to career moves As long as you take into account all the information that you can get and

that you have at the point when you make the decision and you make a rational decision to

move or not to move The decision is always right And in most cases I would say in all cases

I can't remember who coined that term It's a two way door right This is

not If you go forward you can't go back you can go forward you can

go sidewards Sometimes you also can go back and by the way sometimes it's even

worth evaluating a proposal um that somebody makes you for a new job And if you

don't really want to move bring that proposal back to your old employer what happens

to many people from my perspective is that you know they get stuck in that place because

they're good at what they're doing now obviously your boss in most cases doesn't want

you to move then because you know he has a very strong workhorse in his team Why would he want

that workhorse to leave and go elsewhere Um Not all bosses are like this Um Many bosses

are looking at the career development of their people but many bosses are actually especially if they

are not themselves strong in the topic they are managing they are looking to keep the strong horses in their

stable rather than letting them move and letting them and have their own career So always keep

that in mind and when you get a good offer and you want to stay maybe bring the

offer back to your employer and that this is what I have on the table Can you do

something for me in my current company Sometimes worth doing needs to be taken with a pinch of

salt It's not working in every company um depending on the company culture but I would

claim 70% It can give you a very positive move Um I think yeah that was

a long talk for that topic I I hope I could give some insights at

least from my perspective And again there's no right and no wrong This is my mantra My way how

I've managed things You may have a completely different way which may be even more successful than

what I have done Alex Uh A very important question is what is digital health We

all know what health means and how important it is But uh uh interesting to learn from

you what digital health means You told me you are working on an idea to transform

the digital health business and found a digital health So can you share your passion and

what it's all about and how this idea came to you Um Was it your network who

helped in that area or how did you start a new venture I know you cannot share everything at

the moment but would love to get a little bit more around digital health So before coming to uh

what is digital and health um you asked the question you know how did this come

about Again I have emphasized the importance of network So at some point I met a

guy whom I had met I don't know 25 years back 30 years back and whom I

had worked with we had developed into different directions We were both in I T at the time

And I have um I went deeper and deeper and deeper into the whole finance I T banking

I T topic and he ventured into the health I T topic So we met up we discussed

you know we compared notes and I always thought up to that point that uh you know banks are

very much behind in digital But if you compare banks being in the stone age

or sorry in the iron age or bronze age then you know hospitals and the health system is probably in

the stone age We still wrestling with the dinosaurs from my perspective So many parallels on

how to address things Uh many tools concepts ideas developments that happened uh on the technical side but

also on business development side based on technical developments had somehow not made it into the health sector

Uh They were just not adopted or never never transformed So we are three founders again one

is uh a um health I T architect Let me call it this way Um I'm the old

banking I T finance I T guy and we have one medical health professional who is a um

a medical doctor and a professor in his field and we thought we can probably do something So what are

we doing What we are building is we're calling this a vertical business ecosystem uh broad word Um We think

a lot of digital transformation needs to happen in the health sector And from experience we had

all seen in all our fields that when these digital transformations are happening what's usually happening is that um people

start that from the technical angle I implement a new system and it will all be better And then

you discover oops but with the new system comes new processes or different processes And once you

overhaul your processes you need to revisit you know what are my products and how do I want

to run my products in the future Plus you get new technical opportunities to do things completely different

So your products may be coming which were physical products before may now become service products or they

may even become completely virtual products like API based products And there is a whole transformation there And most

of what I've seen in my career was always coming from the technical angle from replacing systems And again in

the recent let's say 1 1.5 decades the technology space has churned out so many new concepts

that you can't apply to business concepts to processes to products But ultimately it's only successful people adopted So at

the end it's about the people and people meaning it's the professionals as well as your

customers Now everybody talks customer journey one way or another to be very fair Many things

I have seen so far in different industries are not customer journeys they are product journeys or

product service journeys or product on boarding or sales journeys Um rarely real customer journeys

Um And again same applies basically for the professionals working in a field if especially if

that field is highly knowledge skills and and work intensive and and and people intensive So what we thought

is that we need to address the transformation of the whole health space from the people

angle in the first instance from the professionals So we're building a platform basically where um people

can be trained can share knowledge can acquire knowledge can pursue career opportunities And we will serve Corporates the

Corporates where these people are working usually also help their in their staffing needs in

their acquisition of expertise in their general procurement and so on and so forth The

field is very wide So far we've built an M V P a minimal viable product

and we now need to basically refund the company to be ready for the launch

and for the operations because that will cost us a bit of money Uh So far we've

invested all our own capital all our own work Now we need to basically broaden that

a bit And once we have um the investment in then we will launch hopefully soon And

that's what we're working towards And after that I can also disclose a bit more how things are

working Exactly and how we are doing So as I said the question I'm asking myself is basically um

you know what are the important topics on my bucket list Because my bucket list keeps growing You know

I never have enough time to do everything that I would love to do and that I would like to

do and that I think needs to be done So you have to have a selection mechanism My

selection mechanism is always like which are the important topics There's always some urgent topics

and very often they get imposed on you by somebody else or something some outside um

influence now never let something urgent Basically bog you down on something important because if something important becomes urgent

you're in trouble So try and get the important things done properly and early and try and get

the urgent things either than yourself or you outsource them or you buy a service to get

them done or do them quickly as as much as you can and never lose sight of the really

important ones because these are the ones that determine your career your future your personal life And I'm always

asking myself when I go through my bucket list do I have to do all of those

And which ones are the important ones The important ones I think I must tackle and ideally important

tackle them before they become urgent But at least some wisdom I'm following So Alex here comes now the question

with a little bit uh a challenge around the timing You have exactly 60 seconds

to answer most of the things which come to your mind But at least five M I

CS so called five most important career advices So what are your five most important career advices for

all the listeners out there Get your mind ready and 54321 go Ok Number one do what

you're interested in and stay curious and learn There's nothing better than managing a field that you understand to the

largest extent Number two whatever you do do it properly to the best of your knowledge

to the best of your ability Number three network network network stay in touch with

people liaise with people understand what they are doing how they are ticking and keep exchanging ideas for them

Number four be open look at opportunities if they present themselves don't say no immediately even

if you're comfortable in the job even if you like your job always evaluate what's being brought

to you and then take the decision Number five if you get kicked if you get kicked out of a

job if things don't go well take the forward impulse and move don't be stagnant Number six you

don't have to be the fastest The best the brightest you just have to be there

when the others have flunked out have failed or have given up and you can carry it out to

the end Um The last one number seven work in a team get feedback solicit feedback honest feedback because

the boss is not always right and there's always something to be learned from feedback

Alex Thank you so much for making the time for this interview I really enjoyed

it and learned a lot of new things Thank you Also for sharing your experience

openly with our listeners This is all about what the E X P series is

really a lot of valuable learning and you opened a big box with great personal career advice Thank you for

that I wish you all the best with digital health And let me know if you need an advisor who

helps and overcomes some challenges You have my contact details No question about it Uh I

see you either in Dubai or somewhere else in the world have a great trip back home and uh see

you soon Bye Thanks We will definitely stay in touch about digital health and about other things

that we're doing And um to everybody who has listened to this podcast until this

point One other word of advice from my side you know listen to as many opinions

as you can get listen to how people have mastered their careers their trajectory their their personal development But at

the end you know digest it digest it think about it and then create your

own way Usually no two ways are the same No two problems are the same

and no two solutions are the same So you have to learn digest and then basically make your own solution

out of it At least that would be my advice Thank you

Welcome everybody to the E X P series here at UN 10 10 dot com For all new listeners in

our E X P series we share leadership and career experiences from successful leaders around the world So E X

P stands for experience My name is Udon Newman I'm the founder and chief experience officer at UN 10

I N banking to a founder in Digital Health I welcome a good friend of mine Alexandra Reiff Alexander was

the cio and global head of tech technology for years in different banks in the United Arab Emirates

and is now the founder of Digital Health So what makes Alex very unique is his energy and

passion to transform business models and organizations He did that in Europe in Asia and in the Middle East And

I'm looking forward to hear from him how he did that What are his challenges and what were opportunities around

his career in these different kind of regions of the world So welcome Alex and thank

you for being my guest It's great to have you on the E X P series And I'm

sure our listeners will also get a lot of positive feedback out of your experience Thank you And let's get

in it Hi Thanks for inviting me to be part of your podcast and happy to share some insights experience

knowledge uh from my past and from my presence and looking forward to a few

challenging questions from you Let's get into the question Alex Um Your career is a trip

from Stuttgart to Beijing to Abu Dhabi and to Dubai And these are only uh some some

top names of cities they were for sure more around that So a lot of people me included

have international careers But I must say yours is a special selection of countries and challenges And I remember some

of your career steps when we work closely together But please for our listeners share your bio and

more important where your decision points on your career are and what are the different challenging milestones on

your career path You mentioned a few of my stations as you said where I have been and it's you've

mainly focused out around the locations I'll try and extend that a bit And before I go into

my bio the locations were only one part Usually the other part was always the

location the culture the business culture in that location and then the company the company culture of

the company that I was working for in these locations And I think that's uh was very often

for me decision points Um where I where I took the decision to move somewhere

Now very often I got offered something uh sometimes I declined sometimes I accepted But before going

also into the bayou you said what are your drivers and decision points For me I think the main

thing that always drives me and that's probably not the same for everybody But for me I

put that even on my linkedin profile as a quote from Albert Einstein which says I'm neither very

clever nor especially gifted I'm only very very curious and a similar thing is for me right I I was

never good at school I was just average everywhere Um I'm not very gifted in anything The only

thing I have is a drive and a curiosity I always want to know more things want to learn different

things want to expand my knowledge my experience And then usually when a decision point came or when

something came um it was either an offer that came from somewhere and then I had to decide

you know in the current position or in the current assignment Am I still progressing Am I still satisfying my

curiosity or am I not Or do I agree with the direction that was basically brought to

me Uh Can I identify myself with that or not And then usually you start to rethink and uh

you you start to rethink whether you know is it still the progress I want to make is

it the direction I want to go to And that's kind of always the decision points

and the drivers and that has never changed over the last many years going back into um bio or where

does all of that come from or how did I end up doing that I mean originally I

studied electrical engineering in Germany Graduated as a master's in what was at that time what

do you call digital at that time which was kind of the technical part of computer science And that went

down to really you know switching switching flip flops and um basically programming F GPA

S and all that stuff really the the hardcore bit of computer science and all of that was in

the last millennium So at the very early stages of this whole thing now after graduating and after basically

being in the job um being uh taken over by the company for whom I did my final thesis

I realized that you know developing hardware and writing low level software was interesting but was not going to cut

it for me for the whole life So I went back to university and did kind

of the German equivalent of an M B A which we call engineer I did half of that in

Germany And as I thought you know there must be something else I did half of that in Singapore

which was kind of my first real international stint And that was quite interesting to be exposed to

a different culture to be exposed to also a different educational environment which was not what I

had experienced so far studying all my time up to a first degree in Germany So that kind of

got me very interested to see Oops there's more out there and there's much more to learn there's much

more to experience and it's not only the content of your job your education there's a lot around this which

is cultural which is business practices which is different behaviors And I sometimes as I say I somehow as I

say I I think I leaked blood at that point Then once that was finished I basically applied and I

signed up with uh at that point uh Shell trading and shipping or shell the oil company

But in their trading arm which was um and in their actually in their I T which was a

good combination of my electronics I T skills and uh the M B A slash business

skills I had acquired at least theoretically during my university time So I ended up in London at a

company called Shell Trading They were doing the crude and products trading and I was in the I

T there Very interesting for me um first as an I T consultant Then when

this whole thing again remember we talk about the last millennium when this whole thing with the web

started I was very keen to get into that to understand that And we developed in-house development In-house developed

a few productivity applications stuff you you take for granted today stuff you get off the shelf today with office

for them and then also did some infrastructure work for them on the network level

understanding how IP networks work and uh basically rolling out messaging projects Um Again very interesting

Lots of facets Uh The thing then was I was in their trainee program But

you know what um there was no real progress anymore and there was no real projection for me

anymore What comes next and where to go next So something happened some old friend called me

and said look there's this startup here in Germany they're looking for somebody to basically help drive

the development So I left a very safe job and I left a prescribed career and I jumped into

that start up and was doing e-commerce software again very interesting set up there The whole thing the

software the whole dream was already sold to a few customers but nothing was really

built or not a lot Let me say it this way and uh somebody had to get

the whole things together that was a very engaged team Um And um a very also knowledgeable and very skilled

team I just needed to be pulling together a bit of architecture which I hadn't come across

before that but a bit of systems architecture uh how to do these things properly

how to do them in a scalable way So we build software and that was great So I was there

for three years It was running quite well It was a startup I put some money in Unfortunately you know

there was this external event which they called the dot com bubble burst which hit us unfortunately before the

next f funding round And uh we were not yet cash flow positive We had a good

cash flow but we were not yet cash flow positive And that's when you get in trouble with

the startup Usually uh you're not yet cash flow positive there's not enough money anymore and

you need to then do something So we had to restructure the company It was a very tough way We

had to downsize things were not going necessarily the trajectory I thought they should be going We built a great

software We had quite a few customers We were running the biggest e-commerce site in Europe on Microsoft basis

But still at the end there came a decision point when um I got an

offer from a company called Daimler slash Mercedes from uh which is when I met UDO basically And

that sounded actually interesting And um you know so I had to rethink do I want to

keep spending my time in the startup environment Um or do I want to move back into

Big Cop and uh and operate there And at that point I felt I can learn more

by moving back into big corporation Um Plus in all fairness I had two little kids uh

you know you need to bring the money home in order to have the food on the

table So I switched I switched to Daimler at that point and was then under UDO responsible for the cluster

central Europe as a as a cluster C A O uh with quite a few with quite

a few group companies there running largely vehicle finance on the retail side and also vehicle

finance a bit on the corporate side for the deal of financing And interesting enough many of

them had all the same problems They were engaged in some transformation programs they were engaged in

some uh system migrations and they were largely how should I say tackled only technically but not organizationally Uh

They were very often you know conceptualized purely technically and neglected the whole organizational piece and how to

get how to get such a thing implemented or changed Uh Because it's the technical part is

just one part it's an important part and it needs to be done well but it's not

the only part So cut the long story short I ended up going around the Europe uh

trying to basically bring such projects back on track or to run them completely And

somehow in some cases I was successful in some cases you couldn't fix them And um that was

all very interesting And I kept learning I kept learning system approaches I kept learning different organizations I kept

learning different financial products which I had not come across before And as it is my it as it is

my kind of personal endeavor I want to know not only how do things work

technically but also how do they work Uh conceptually So I wanted to learn how does a leasing work How

does a loan work How does that get calculated How does that get accounted for How

does that get amortized How and so on and how does that get serviced Uh how do you

interact with the customer and within this project you know I had lots of um

lots of um opportunities to ask people who know how this works So that went on for a

while then uh somebody realized uh that you could send me into some burning platforms And the next

burning platform was Beijing at that point in uh in China where Daimler Le Mercedes

were just building a new financial services company at that point which I think it's become

a bank in the meantime and they needed somebody to basically make sure this thing goes live properly and then

uh it is operational and can be built out uh with further products further systems and

so on So we packed the container and went to Beijing with the whole family That was interesting

completely different culture completely new environment Sure it challenging Yes But you know what I think it was

it was great It was a great experience So that went on for about two years

Um I was just about to renew my contract for another year because there was

more things to come on that side that the company was growing like mad and um additional systems for additional

products needed to be implemented Uh I enjoyed that very much and then I got another call saying

look um you just have to go over the water into Japan Um There's a few other there's a

few issues with a few of the financial service companies there because there is three and then there is the

vehicles import side and the part logistics side So quite a few things need to be done there

Can you please go So I looked at it like Japan it was never in Japan Don't know

that culture really heard lots of things But uh anyway so again packed the container moved

the family to Japan was there for three years Um doing replacement projects doing refurbishment projects

and doing I think still the only demerger of my career uh where uh Daimler and Chrysler or

Mercedes and Chrysler basically Dem Meg very interesting exercise Um If you ever get to do one of

those again for three years doing system replacements and and architecture overhauls landscape overhauls there First time I did virtualization

there very interesting And with that one got exposed to let me call it what we call cloud today

at least on the technology side So that was quite interesting Uh Then I got called back into

Germany to basically take care of a few things One was the home build um course system uh that

they were running out of Milton Keynes Plus there was a project going on in Detroit Plus

moving the financial services headquarter from Berlin to Stuttgart and so on and so forth And that was

then for me a bit how should I say Awkward I didn't know really you know where was

this going And and um my boss had changed didn't like that guy So you

know then all of a sudden I had hunted ok And and said look there is

this uh actually it was two things happening at the same time I had literally two job offers

at the same time which is very rare One was uh to go to London and the

other one was to go to this weird place called Abu Dhabi uh where there

was a bank who needed somebody to you know do what I used to do Overhaul the whole thing

I then thought you know London I was already uh my son was born there So

why not try something new Let's go to Abu Dhabi So we went to Abu Dhabi That was for me

probably one of the bigger challenges because I was all of a sudden not only responsible for um some

part of the banking business but they literally they were a universal bank and they literally

had everything that you can think of in banking from retail conventional Islamic over sme

to corporate banking to um to brokerage to wealth management to private banking you name it

they had it And um the whole thing was pretty pretty pretty um underserved On the I T

side I should say uh I was really surprised what you can on which footprint

you can run a bank So everything needed to be done That was down from

the data centers from the networks from the server landscape up to the application landscape to the

whole application architecture replacing core systems replacing payment systems building out the channels which were not there before and

then basically ramping them up and putting them onto a footprint so you can run The whole thing

was quite interesting And um that went actually it took me about six years or

so to refurbish that whole shop And just at the moment when it would have become

boring there was another challenge which was you know three banks merging So I went into a three

bank merger and uh got the task to kind of get that done on the I T side

which again was a very interesting one never done a three way never done such a merger

But um then just right in the middle of that everything was designed set up was running was

running Well actually at that point there was a personal event in my life which was

my daughter had an offer to basically join the United World College And um well that would

have meant for her a change in the location for her last two years in

the diploma program and she was prepared to go to boarding But at the same time I had a few

health issues and I had done this for quite a while And so I thought maybe time for a

change maybe time to retire Now I I can probably while I talk about this

I can hear UDO laughing in the background Alex and retiring And that was really

my goal I had to fix a few health issues which I did And together with my daughter and

my wife we then went to to Thailand and you know try to recover health wise Plus um

enable my daughter to do her to do her to finish her school there And um I really wanted

to opt out but then obviously as it was still within that merger um somebody

needed to you know finish that So my boss came to me and said you need

to find me a solution So basically for the best part of the year I was shuttling

back and forth between Thailand and Abu Dhabi In order to pull this merger over the line

which we then successfully did we merged the systems and everything worked all well And uh

I left then uh like two days or three days after the final merger and

after the final go live of the systems I boarded the plane flew back to Thailand I think I landed

one day the next day the airport was locked for over a year due to COVID So I was

I was stranded in Thailand which was actually quite nice You know I fixed my health issues and then things

started to happen I really wanted to retire but uh didn't pan out like this as it

was COVID and as everybody was kind of and now all of a sudden accepting remote

working um I got quite a few people who called me who were aware that this guy Alex

has nothing to do Um So I got lots of things Can you have a

look at this one Can you please check out that one Can you whatever you

know lots of and or I even went into some consulting engagements because nobody wanted you on

site anyway at that point in time So I did a lot of stuff remote

and that's how all of this started I got into some um some startups who

were asking for advice So I and some of them were so interesting that I decided I

want to even put some money into them So I started what you would call angel investment

for angel investing for no better word So I started to put money into it put my

knowledge into it try to coach a few of these founders And that became really

interesting and um that went on until kind of COVID was over until my daughter

graduated And then we decided that probably Thailand is a bit too calm So we came back to

the UAE um still had an apartment in Dubai moved into that one And then again things

started to happen I was very busy with my um startups on the fintech and red side and on

the crypto asset side and all of a sudden another bank here local bank came and said look we're looking

for somebody who can you know inflict the change of also to say fix up things

Um So I started with them and uh that was also very interesting Again another

universal bank lots of projects in trouble which needed to be on track Um a landscape which needs overhaul

a lot of work So that was going on while that happened I met um I met an

old friend of mine actually he was the first guy I had ever hired and we compared notes and he

had some ideas and uh how does that uh came a startup So we we we threw

our ideas together we threw our concepts together And at the end uh we started a startup

we put quite a lot of money in and uh now I'm running a startup I'm still in the bank

as a consultant Uh basically to help them finish off all the things that I tried

to on track and that I started with them that I needed to finalize But but couldn't because

I can't I can't do two full time jobs At least not in how I'm

engaging usually So I'm still working with them as a consultant And uh on the other

side um I have a start up with a bunch of uh friends where we're trying to

do something completely different And again that's the story for now let's see where we're going

from here Alex Uh Very interesting uh listening to your story and yeah let let's move into another topic

Um Please share with us some career highlights There are highlights in every career whether promotion or changes

in a professional environment I know you stepped out of your comfort zone several times and

started in completing new environments where you need to learn not only new business rule rules

but also new cultures So please describe a moment or a decision in your career

that you consider a major success or highlight What was it And uh why did you select that and share

that with us Now what was the um the special moment in that decision OK Before I come to

moment of decision which was a major success or which I would deem a major success I have

to go back a bit to how you framed the whole question When you said you

know stepping out of your comfort zone and so on and so forth Actually that concept doesn't exist for

me Uh there is no comfort zone there's a boring zone and there is an exciting

zone The comfort zone or the boring zone is for me always when things get repetitive and it's

always the same when I'm doing things again and again that I've done before there's no

excitement in there because I'm not learning anything anymore I'm a change manager and as a

change manager you're always looking for change and not for continuing the same thing in a slightly different fashion in

order to achieve another 1% efficiency a change manager you know lives and breathes um change like

change Meaning you take something from a stable state via an unstable state to the next stable state Now um

That's why you know whenever something becomes you know repetitive for me or comfortable it's

time to find something new So it's exciting again And that goes together with what I said

earlier that I'm always trying to learn I'm always excited about new things and I I always

I'm always curious to find other things and coming back then to your question like when

is something successful or what is a major success for me I don't want to go into

individual ones but it was largely around um some turnarounds and which was often around either um system implementation ations

or about whole transformations You know when they go live in a bank that's usually a pretty tricky

piece because the bank never stops And that means that whenever you're operating you know you can't take the

things down you have to change the engine while the race is running And that is

usually pretty complex And usually you know a few things could potentially go wrong because it's complex and not everybody

will know everything at any point in time that can happen So I think such migrations let

me call it this way largely of core banking systems of payment systems They are what I would consider major

successes or highlights because not only because of the technical life because things going also because of all the excitement

around it Because usually if the thing is set up properly and if you're running it

properly you have a very good team spirit you have a team which is basically

doing the utmost to get things done and to do them successfully and in quality

and in time And that is definitely one thing when you then go through that

with the team and things go live successfully and they they they they cut over successfully Um because that's

a major achievement not only for one person but usually for the team the other thing is that

usually in such exercises or very often you have to take very unconventional decisions because normally

not everything goes to plan and when not everything goes to plan usually you have to very

quickly grapple Ok What's the situation Who can help me in the concept And then

you have to take the tough decisions usually very quickly You don't have time to mull over it

and and uh and do all your academical research over it you have to go by experience

by trust to people who know some fields that you don't know yourself and then basically um take the decisions

very quickly Um And I think I I draw a lot of energy out of such

events and that's why I also consider them as as major successes when things are then going live Actually

another one which people would usually not associate with success is when uh when things have gone majorly wrong

when disasters have struck and you need to bring things back into into a proper run

into a proper control Give an example I had one event where there was a

major actually power failure in a data center which is not supposed to happen And literally the whole bank

went down and we had to bring the thing back up in Um actually no

time because customers were waiting to get served on the channels And as you can assume this is

not a very easy exercise because you know when things are down some things are coming back up properly

some things don't come back up properly you have to take lots of decisions at all based on experience

and based on a few good people you have around you as as as coworkers and and

advisor in in such case and I draw a lot of energy out of such events

even though they are actually negative events But you know once you solve them once you

get things back up running um ideally in a very quick time this is for me also

um a major highlight um because it shows you that number one you have the ability to basically correlate

task and you have the team to basically help you um to get the right information at the

right time in the right depth in order to make the right decisions And again it's a

mixture of uh knowledge skills experience and people people people teams usually and team spirit um without a team

such things can never be pulled And uh again most of the most of such successes that I would

say are are successes I I I like and I would like to drill on is is all

such goal lives or such major fixes after a disaster struck somewhere I know it's a bit unconventional

I know this is not what everybody would think is an exciting moment But uh for me that's what

cuts it usually now uh I don't want to make it too easy for my guests

here Alex So here comes a tough question Which decision in your career was the toughest one Why

was it tough And for sure we want to know what was the outcome Well

which decision was the toughest one That's actually very easy to answer There's only one thing coming to

mind and that was the most difficult one and remains the most difficult one that I

had to ever decide Um That was actually during the times uh with our ecommerce startup

we were actually doing great We were building software It was going well we had uh customers we

rolled out Uh we had an excellent team and we were working our backsides off right

So we're working with the team like day and night over the weekends to pull things off

to build things to get them live and so on So on That was great Unfortunately there

was this uh external event called the dot com Hubble Bust Um And all of a

sudden you know funding dried up we were not yet cash flow positive So the company couldn't fund itself Um

because again we still were burning money um rather than earning enough because we're still in the build phase

Um So it was actually all going to plan The thing that was unplanned is

that we would not be able to basically match the next funding round and get enough money in

um to basically fund us up to profit full profitability So what happens in such case there's two choices

right And by the way that's the easy part of the equation The choice is not

to let the company go bust And uh basically all the people lose their job

and all the assets that were building or everything that you have done so far was for a toss or

do you reduce your workforce in order to cut cost So the decision was again the easy part of the

decision was does the whole thing go bust or do we cut half of the workforce

out That one was simple right Because you know rather than letting 100% go you let 50%

go the difficult part is whom will you let go You know and you don't have to take decisions on

a personal basis to say like who can stay who can go whom do we actually need as

a skeleton group to continue the company and to continue the build Um who has families whose hardest

hit by this decision It's not like making one or two nonperformance redundant It's like you

will have to release a few people who have become close friends who have worked with you day and night

through who are part of the team So you rip the team apart uh You rip

the spirit apart Um You release people who you don't want to release because they've done

a fabulous job with you and they've worked with you again day and night through to

pull things off Um yeah that is probably the hardest decision I had to take who are the ones who

have to leave who are the ones who can stay and and then basically communicating that

to these people And again it's not just like a person a number you know a a

staff number or something like it it's much easier actually in a big company when there's lots of severance packages

and blah blah blah in a small company in a startup that struggles for survival This is

a very very very personal story and it's a very sad personal story I hope for all the ones

and maybe one of of these guys and girls here's this Now I hope I've

handled it Um ok for everybody even though it was a very negative decision and it was a

cut for quite a lot of people I still hope that I handled it very humane and personal and

explain to everybody as to why and as to what and again what's the toughest decision

Don't wanna go through it again if I can avoid it as I'm helping or guiding uh questions here I

would say did you have a plan for your career Was it all by accident Uh Was

it the roles the chop itself or the challenges What motivated you for Always the next step How did

your family um support you in that Because without that it's not not possible And I know from my own

experience this is not always easy for for our wives and our kids moving around the world that starts a

new challenge and uh family follows So please feel free But uh in a short reflection um try to bring

some main decision and building blocks for our listeners so that they may be prepared when they are in front

of their decisions OK Um These are quite a few questions all merged into one Um Now

from the overarching topic like development and success and how that that will happen in my case

And what could I potentially recommend to somebody Um First I would try and dissect the whole thing a bit

into let me call it personal development and career development I think you can have

a great personal development without ever forwarding your career and vice versa You can uh have

an excellent career but not at all developed Personally I think the real story is um if if

you can combine the two um that is the best thing you can do from my perspective Now

on the personal development side I can only speak for myself and there's probably different paths for

me It was always that curiosity that um eagerness to learn find new things go

into a bit uncharted territory um that kept me going Um And again that's for me I'm not

sure if this is the same for everybody but it definitely helps if you're very curious and it definitely

helps if you uh if you can take the things that you're curious about into your work life and

into your um business career I'm always saying also to my kids you don't have

to be the fastest one You don't have to be the best one You don't have to

be the brightest one You just have to be there when the others have given up

and then pull the thing to the end now And that has always worked for me by the way or

you pick up things that others couldn't complete It's difficult But if you're curious and if you try and understand

why things fail if you understand why things how things should be done properly If

you plan them properly it will always work Uh don't fight losing battles though right If you're in

a losing battle better get out But if you see that there is a path to success in that

battle even though that battle is a hard one always go and fight it till the end

And usually if you're successful where's failed that gives you a much better trajectory Also

on your career side So that's more the personal side Uh on the career development

side for me was there a planned career path Yes and no On the one hand there was

always a path forward There was always some ideas what I wanted to do where

I wanted to go Um So it's always better to have a plan and then change it rather than

to have no plan and and walk through your career and through your life without a

plan Um But um you know things do change circumstances change and when they do change you need

to act or react or decide not to react So was it all by accident No probably

also not again I think um well let me go back to my first interview that I

had for my interview that I had in the Assessment Center for my first job at at Shell I was

actually interviewed by the Shell C A O in Germany And he asked me the usual question where do

you want to be in 10 years And I thought I want to have your seat in 10 years

Obviously I didn't tell him that I was too shy at that point in time I was

not bold enough Uh But I should have actually I should have told him that but I

felt this was not appropriate at the time Was that the plan Uh actually there was no clear plan

how to get there There was no clear plan how to get into a cio seat But you

know there was this ambition and I would say the most important thing more than having a

plan is what is your ambition and which steps can you take to get a bit closer

towards your ambition So it's again it's not about having a laid out career path for

your life for your next 10 2030 years I think that's not going to work today You

know technologies things environments are changing too fast for you to have a mapped out

career for your next like two digit years timeline Again you should have an ambition you

should know where you want to go You should be open when new things happen And even if

you have a clear path for the next five or 10 years if new opportunities arise

you should be prepared to rethink and at least reevaluate so that it's it's basically coming back the jobs

that we learned back in university at least for me or the job I'm doing

today didn't exist in that form and shape as I learned it in university Um

And I think that applies to all of us especially today things um develop faster than we think

And um there are going to be jobs in five or 10 years that nobody knows

about today So you better prepared for that You better prepared to keep learning on your personal

development side Uh On your professional side you better evaluate when there are opportunities coming in

Now opportunities are coming in two flavors from my perspective One is let me call it positive opportunities So somebody

comes to you and says look I have this job I have this thing you know would you

be interested Never say no In the first instance always look at it always talk to people and very

important Actually I learned that I'd be too late in my career because I thought I would stay in the

big companies where I was until you know either a very unexpected opportunity came or

until things went sour one way or another What I'm trying to say is never

get stuck in your in your a prescribed corporate career in the big Corp where you are always stay

open and always network network network network with people outside keep contact talk to people understand what they are

up to It's very important especially for people like me I'm an engineer by trade

I would say originally I was probably an introvert very difficult for me to go

out just meet people and and talk about what are they doing business wise How is

this working learning from them and so on But I can only emphasize it's important It's important

It's important Network invest the time the more time you invest the more interesting things will come to

you over time again This is not something I met I network with a guy or a person today And

tomorrow he comes with a job to me that's not going to happen But uh networking

is a long term game and you have to be in it for the long run you build

networks you liaise with people you understand what they're doing you try and read up on you

know how is this working what they're doing You try and learn from them As long as you're always keen

in learning networking always works And you know the more network you have the more opportunities will rise

for you That's one So that's the positive opportunities And again when an opportunity comes never say no in the

first place always have a look at it talk about the details understand what this opportunity is

about and then sit back and reflect and say is that the right thing for me to do at this

point in time then you have negative opportunities You know your job runs sour for

whatever reason your boss changes Uh your company is an M and A exercise and lays off

people Um things are happening you know and nobody is safe from that Now if these things happen I

think I can only give you one advice If you get kicked in the ass take the impulse forward

and run with it and do something with it Don't get stuck right If these things happen again somebody kicks

you in the backside use the use the moves the movement forward and run with it right And and

uh speed up get things done find something new network even more go into your

contacts find out you know what can be done Where are other opportunities don't take the

first best be very conscious but also negative changes in your work environment can have very positive effects

Sometimes you know we all get uh what we call the comfort zone I would say the boring zone

these things do happen and you know some of us get lifted out of that comfort or boring zone

by getting kicked and you don't want to be in that position But when it

happens you need to be prepared for it and you need to know how to

deal with it Don't stagnate Uh don't procrastinate always move I think that's what I would have to

say in the whole thing Um I can give you many examples but I think that would probably get

get us into too long a debate uh for this podcast Know you mentioned one other thing which is

uh family and moves international moves and all of that actually a very very very important thing and

there is no you know recipe one size fits all I think the first thing I've seen

people having international careers and having their families back in the old place and then moving around

a lot flying around a lot working remotely working in several places kind of living

on the plane very successfully and also with their families very successfully and it has worked out for them I've

seen more people who are basically uh where the whole family always moved And I think in that

respect what makes or breaks the one or the other model is basically your partner If your partner is

up for a move your partner is ready to basically um you know change the

environment take the challenge you know build the social networks new in a new place in a

different culture There's nothing better like it but it's not for every relationship So relationships can break over

that And you have to take a very conscious decision when these things get offered You know are you

and your and your partner ready for that You think you can live through it or not if not

and your relationship um is precious don't do it if you think it can work out And again

sometimes you need to plunge in and take the challenge and see that it works out Um I

would say always do it You know you were talking about kids I mean you have kids yourself I have

kids I think you know we are very often not moving because of our kids

I think kids take a very positive thing out of moving getting into new environments seeing different things having different

experiences going into different schools Um You know being in different places in different cultures My claim is kids

will ultimately always benefit from it from it Kids will never never never not benefit from it Um If

you basically orchestrate the whole thing Right That's why I would always say the most important thing is

is your family um stable is your spouse with you in the whole thing And

um I would say even moves can have and in most cases I have seen had very very positive

effects on families because the cohesion within the family gets much stronger at least in my experience and many

people whom I have seen I would even claim that people who have moved a lot or

who have lived their life on the move the divorce rate is probably much lower At least from my

observation I don't have a real stat for that So family for me is always um a very

important one and I think it's more positive for most families Again always as long as your

partner is uh is interested and is ready to do it again Could I give any advice for

your career Probably not I could only give you the advice do what you love and

what you're interested in That's a very important one because without that you will never have a career and um

always be open for new things network keep your eyes open evaluate new things Never say

no in the first place be very conscious And by the way there's no wrong decisions when it

comes to career moves As long as you take into account all the information that you can get and

that you have at the point when you make the decision and you make a rational decision to

move or not to move The decision is always right And in most cases I would say in all cases

I can't remember who coined that term It's a two way door right This is

not If you go forward you can't go back you can go forward you can

go sidewards Sometimes you also can go back and by the way sometimes it's even

worth evaluating a proposal um that somebody makes you for a new job And if you

don't really want to move bring that proposal back to your old employer what happens

to many people from my perspective is that you know they get stuck in that place because

they're good at what they're doing now obviously your boss in most cases doesn't want

you to move then because you know he has a very strong workhorse in his team Why would he want

that workhorse to leave and go elsewhere Um Not all bosses are like this Um Many bosses

are looking at the career development of their people but many bosses are actually especially if they

are not themselves strong in the topic they are managing they are looking to keep the strong horses in their

stable rather than letting them move and letting them and have their own career So always keep

that in mind and when you get a good offer and you want to stay maybe bring the

offer back to your employer and that this is what I have on the table Can you do

something for me in my current company Sometimes worth doing needs to be taken with a pinch of

salt It's not working in every company um depending on the company culture but I would

claim 70% It can give you a very positive move Um I think yeah that was

a long talk for that topic I I hope I could give some insights at

least from my perspective And again there's no right and no wrong This is my mantra My way how

I've managed things You may have a completely different way which may be even more successful than

what I have done Alex Uh A very important question is what is digital health We

all know what health means and how important it is But uh uh interesting to learn from

you what digital health means You told me you are working on an idea to transform

the digital health business and found a digital health So can you share your passion and

what it's all about and how this idea came to you Um Was it your network who

helped in that area or how did you start a new venture I know you cannot share everything at

the moment but would love to get a little bit more around digital health So before coming to uh

what is digital and health um you asked the question you know how did this come

about Again I have emphasized the importance of network So at some point I met a

guy whom I had met I don't know 25 years back 30 years back and whom I

had worked with we had developed into different directions We were both in I T at the time

And I have um I went deeper and deeper and deeper into the whole finance I T banking

I T topic and he ventured into the health I T topic So we met up we discussed

you know we compared notes and I always thought up to that point that uh you know banks are

very much behind in digital But if you compare banks being in the stone age

or sorry in the iron age or bronze age then you know hospitals and the health system is probably in

the stone age We still wrestling with the dinosaurs from my perspective So many parallels on

how to address things Uh many tools concepts ideas developments that happened uh on the technical side but

also on business development side based on technical developments had somehow not made it into the health sector

Uh They were just not adopted or never never transformed So we are three founders again one

is uh a um health I T architect Let me call it this way Um I'm the old

banking I T finance I T guy and we have one medical health professional who is a um

a medical doctor and a professor in his field and we thought we can probably do something So what are

we doing What we are building is we're calling this a vertical business ecosystem uh broad word Um We think

a lot of digital transformation needs to happen in the health sector And from experience we had

all seen in all our fields that when these digital transformations are happening what's usually happening is that um people

start that from the technical angle I implement a new system and it will all be better And then

you discover oops but with the new system comes new processes or different processes And once you

overhaul your processes you need to revisit you know what are my products and how do I want

to run my products in the future Plus you get new technical opportunities to do things completely different

So your products may be coming which were physical products before may now become service products or they

may even become completely virtual products like API based products And there is a whole transformation there And most

of what I've seen in my career was always coming from the technical angle from replacing systems And again in

the recent let's say 1 1.5 decades the technology space has churned out so many new concepts

that you can't apply to business concepts to processes to products But ultimately it's only successful people adopted So at

the end it's about the people and people meaning it's the professionals as well as your

customers Now everybody talks customer journey one way or another to be very fair Many things

I have seen so far in different industries are not customer journeys they are product journeys or

product service journeys or product on boarding or sales journeys Um rarely real customer journeys

Um And again same applies basically for the professionals working in a field if especially if

that field is highly knowledge skills and and work intensive and and and people intensive So what we thought

is that we need to address the transformation of the whole health space from the people

angle in the first instance from the professionals So we're building a platform basically where um people

can be trained can share knowledge can acquire knowledge can pursue career opportunities And we will serve Corporates the

Corporates where these people are working usually also help their in their staffing needs in

their acquisition of expertise in their general procurement and so on and so forth The

field is very wide So far we've built an M V P a minimal viable product

and we now need to basically refund the company to be ready for the launch

and for the operations because that will cost us a bit of money Uh So far we've

invested all our own capital all our own work Now we need to basically broaden that

a bit And once we have um the investment in then we will launch hopefully soon And

that's what we're working towards And after that I can also disclose a bit more how things are

working Exactly and how we are doing So as I said the question I'm asking myself is basically um

you know what are the important topics on my bucket list Because my bucket list keeps growing You know

I never have enough time to do everything that I would love to do and that I would like to

do and that I think needs to be done So you have to have a selection mechanism My

selection mechanism is always like which are the important topics There's always some urgent topics

and very often they get imposed on you by somebody else or something some outside um

influence now never let something urgent Basically bog you down on something important because if something important becomes urgent

you're in trouble So try and get the important things done properly and early and try and get

the urgent things either than yourself or you outsource them or you buy a service to get

them done or do them quickly as as much as you can and never lose sight of the really

important ones because these are the ones that determine your career your future your personal life And I'm always

asking myself when I go through my bucket list do I have to do all of those

And which ones are the important ones The important ones I think I must tackle and ideally important

tackle them before they become urgent But at least some wisdom I'm following So Alex here comes now the question

with a little bit uh a challenge around the timing You have exactly 60 seconds

to answer most of the things which come to your mind But at least five M I

CS so called five most important career advices So what are your five most important career advices for

all the listeners out there Get your mind ready and 54321 go Ok Number one do what

you're interested in and stay curious and learn There's nothing better than managing a field that you understand to the

largest extent Number two whatever you do do it properly to the best of your knowledge

to the best of your ability Number three network network network stay in touch with

people liaise with people understand what they are doing how they are ticking and keep exchanging ideas for them

Number four be open look at opportunities if they present themselves don't say no immediately even

if you're comfortable in the job even if you like your job always evaluate what's being brought

to you and then take the decision Number five if you get kicked if you get kicked out of a

job if things don't go well take the forward impulse and move don't be stagnant Number six you

don't have to be the fastest The best the brightest you just have to be there

when the others have flunked out have failed or have given up and you can carry it out to

the end Um The last one number seven work in a team get feedback solicit feedback honest feedback because

the boss is not always right and there's always something to be learned from feedback

Alex Thank you so much for making the time for this interview I really enjoyed

it and learned a lot of new things Thank you Also for sharing your experience

openly with our listeners This is all about what the E X P series is

really a lot of valuable learning and you opened a big box with great personal career advice Thank you for

that I wish you all the best with digital health And let me know if you need an advisor who

helps and overcomes some challenges You have my contact details No question about it Uh I

see you either in Dubai or somewhere else in the world have a great trip back home and uh see

you soon Bye Thanks We will definitely stay in touch about digital health and about other things

that we're doing And um to everybody who has listened to this podcast until this

point One other word of advice from my side you know listen to as many opinions

as you can get listen to how people have mastered their careers their trajectory their their personal development But at

the end you know digest it digest it think about it and then create your

own way Usually no two ways are the same No two problems are the same

and no two solutions are the same So you have to learn digest and then basically make your own solution

out of it At least that would be my advice Thank you